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Denise Howell Denise Howell
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Dennis M. Kennedy Dennis M. Kennedy
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Tom Mighell Tom Mighell
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Marty Schwimmer Marty Schwimmer
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Ernest Svenson Ernest Svenson
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Denise Howell is a seasoned appellate and intellectual property litigator based in Los Angeles. Denise writes one of the first and most popular law-related blogs, Bag and Baggage, coined the term "blawg" and helped pioneer podcasting for lawyers. Microcontent obsessed since 2001, she is frequently quoted in the media on legal issues involving intellectual property and technology law. "Sound Policy" is Denise's show at IT Conversations, and it's also what she hopes results from the briefs she submits to court. Email Denise at dhowell@gmail.com.

Dennis Kennedy is a computer lawyer and legal technology expert based in St. Louis, Missouri. An award-winning author, a frequent speaker and a widely-read blogger, he has more than 300 publications on legal, technology and Internet topics, many of which are collected in his e-books. Dennis has been described as someone who knows almost every rock song in existence and, more importantly, how they apply to technology and law. Email Dennis at his gmail address.

Tom Mighell is Senior Counsel and Litigation Technology Support Coordinator at Cowles & Thompson in Dallas. He has published the Internet Legal Research Weekly newsletter since 2000 and blogged about the Internet and legal technology at Inter Alia since August of 2002. With Tom's singing, Ernie on guitar and Dennis' encylopedic knowledge of rock music, we may have the beginnings of a good band, if this whole blog thing doesn't work out. Email Tom at tmighell@swbell.net.

Marty Schwimmer left a partnership in the largest trademark practice in the world and founded Schwimmer Mitchell, a full-service IP micro-boutique in Westchester County, New York, where he represents owners of famous and not yet famous trademarks. He founded The Trademark Blog, the first IP law blog and the one with the most pictures. He is the first to come in and the last to leave in his firm. Email Marty at marty@schwimmerlegal.com.

Ernest Svenson practices law with a mid-sized law firm in New Orleans, specializing in business-related lawsuits. Most of his practice takes place in federal court, especially the Eastern District. He is best known for his weblog Ernie the Attorney, which he started as an experiment. Like many experiments it got out of control. Nevertheless, he continues to practice law and, occasionally, to seek enlightenment. Email Ernest at esvenson@gmail.com.
About this blog
Between Lawyers provides just-in-time group commentary on the issues raised when technology, culture and the law intersect. We take you behind the firewalls and conference room doors to show you how experienced lawyers deal with these issues and help you prepare for the new challenges we all face. For more, see our introductory post.

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Category Archives

August 19, 2007

Facebook for Lawyers?

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Posted by Dennis M. Kennedy

Tom Mighell and Dennis Kennedy have posted a new episode of their podcast, The Kennedy-Mighell Report (RSS feed here).

In this episode, Dennis and Tom discuss the use (or potential use) of Facebook by lawyers, giving some potential benefits and risks, practical tips, and observations about their experiments in using Facebook. They also talk about how they use the Google Reader for RSS feeds and Google Docs and Spreadsheets for simple collaborations. They also talk about the other podcasts they listen to and how they listen to them.

It's a good introduction for lawyers and other legal professionals to these topics.

You'll find the podcast episode here and there's an archive of earlier podcasts.

It's also a good time to remind you to check out Denise Howell's podcast - This Week in Law - on which you'll find some of the authors of the Between Lawyers blog appearing from time to time.

And, for Facebook members, we invite you to join the Between Lawyers Facebook group.

Comments (5) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: BL News | Legal Technology | Podcasting | RSS | Web 2.0

April 8, 2007

Between Lawyers - Recent Podcasts

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Posted by Dennis M. Kennedy

Members of the Between Lawyers blog can be heard in a number of recent podcasts.

Tom Mighell and Dennis Kennedy have posted the latest episode #5 of The Kennedy-Mighell Report, in which they cover the recent ABA TECHSHOW, legal technology trends for 2007, current developments in electronic discovery, and their upcoming book on collaboration tools for lawyers.

Denise Howell has posted the latest episode of This Week in Law, which includes fellow regular Ernie Svenson. An earlier episode feature Between Lawyers' Marty Schwimmer.


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Comments (0) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: BL News | Blogging Legal Developments | Legal Technology | Podcasting | eDiscovery

March 19, 2007

September 20, 2006

September 11, 2006

August 31, 2006

May 22, 2006

May 17, 2006

Cell Phones and the Emperor's New Clothes

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Posted by Dennis M. Kennedy

I doubt that anyone has more trouble with or dislikes cell phone service more than I do. Today was another adventure in tin-can-and-string sound quality and dropped calls - and I was the one on the land line today.

I don't know anyone who does not admit to having similar problems when I press them, even though they seem to love their actual cell phones - the hardware, that is. What the heck are we all paying for?

Tonight, I found a podcast of a a presentation from Ed Zander of Motorola and here's the description:

Motorola Chairman and CEO Ed Zander says the ultimate cell phone would come back into the home–that is, it would be the only phone one would need. But that development seems far away for users in North America. “People always say to me, ‘I can go to China, and go to the Great Wall of China and make a better phone call than here in the United States,” Zander offered during his keynote interview with Gartner analysts Nick Jones and Ken Dulaney. “And it’s probably true,” Zander noted.

Zander is more polite than most people I know when they get started on this topic - here's a link to the podcast - http://www.podtech.net/?p=645. Check out his point of view.

What do the rest of you think of cell phone service in the U.S.? What are we getting for what we are paying? Is it reasonable to expect more? Or am I the only one this really bothers?

Comments (1) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting | Provocations | Torture

May 15, 2006

(Cue Tattoo:) Defame! Defame!

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Posted by Denise Howell

Paul McNamara at Network World thinks this post by Marquette law professor Eric Goldman, critiquing recent lawsuits against Yahoo!, may be defamatory, because the post says Professor Goldman "think[s] these lawsuits are nothing more than a shakedown for cash," and calls the plaintiffs "extortionists." According to Mr. McNamara, "[Professor Goldman's] words practically scream libel." But, as Mr. McNamara clarifies, a lawyer for the Media Law Resource Center assessed things as follows:

In doing a quick search, I found court decisions holding both ways when dealing with similar accusations of 'extortion,' ... The legal issue would likely be whether the statements were actual imputations of a crime, or were 'rhetorical hyperbole,' essentially a statement of opinion, not of fact. The former could be considered libelous, while the latter could not.

Also notable is an observation from one of the plaintiffs' lawyers, Thomas More Marrone, about the amplification role the Web adds to the mix: "It's like a guy standing on a street corner talking to his friends except he's writing it down and disseminating it to hundreds, thousands, millions of people."

The moral, I suppose, is that if you're going to use an online medium to discuss others' potentially wrongful acts (and there's no getting around that a blog or podcast is an attractive place for commenting on disturbing conduct), a little attention to phrasing and characterization can wind up going a long way. (See also these discussions of the limited nature of the fair reporting privilege.)

Comments (0) + TrackBacks (1) | Category: Blawgs | Blogging Legal Developments | Blogging Policies | Participatory Law | Podcasting

May 12, 2006

May 10, 2006

New Episode of The Kennedy-Mighell Report

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Posted by Dennis M. Kennedy

Tom and Dennis have posted Episode 3 of The Kennedy-Mighell Report podcast, in which they talk about their recent trip to the ABA TECHSHOW and developments in legal technoloogy and the implications for lawyers, law firms and clients of lawyers.

Comments (0) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: BL on Tour | Legal Technology | Podcasting

May 1, 2006

April 17, 2006

Are Any Lawyers Providing Audio or Video Samples of Their Arguments?

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Posted by Dennis M. Kennedy

I've gotten a number of inquiries on my recent post about whether lawyers might use podcasts, videocasts or other audio and video recordings as samples of their work that might be heard or viewed by clients and pootential clients.

I'm personally not aware of any examples of this, but would appreciate it if people might let me know by way of a comment to this post or by email of any examples where this is now being done. Thanks.

Comments (6) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting

April 11, 2006

March 6, 2006

Blogs: Least Risky Of All?

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Posted by Denise Howell

If you've been following our posts concerning business blogging issues and blogging policies, or if you've just been paying attention to mainstream reporting over the last year or so, you know there has been a good deal of handwringing (some media prompted, some lawyer prompted, some both) about the unique or remarkable legal perils that weblogs and other Web-oriented communication tools supposedly pose for businesses. It was clear to me at last week's New Communications Forum that this meme has had an impact. Even in that very blog-friendly environment, concerns and uncertainties about the legal risks of wholly or partly unfiltered employee communications with the outside world were much in evidence.

Something interesting occurred to me along these lines in the course of being interviewed by Debbie Weil for her podcast. Specifically, of all the various communication tools available to employees, whether while on the job or off the job or both, blogging may actually be the least risky and most innocuous from a corporate risk management standpoint. Consider first that people commonly assume phone, email, cocktail party, and/or hallway discussions are invisible, transitory, and/or confidential. Any one of those situations is thus fairly likely to involve remarks that the speaker, rightly or wrongly, does not expect to come back to haunt them in a public way. Then consider the extent to which public blogs, podcasts, and similar tools are conceptually different from the get-go. The accessible nature of the information put out by these means is part of of the compact. Except in the limited case of behind-the-firewall blogging or podcasting, people using these tools are much more likely to comprehend that a broad audience is possible (usually, desired), and to tailor their communications accordingly.

Remember our posts about brochures, telephones, golf, and public speaking?

Unlike a great deal of the reporting I read about the dangers and pitfalls of blogging, I have a hard time isolating any primary legal problems that inevitably go along with employees using communication tools of any sort. Instead, the potential problems are a direct product of the extent to which clear expectations have been set, and the extent to which a particular employee is oblivious or doesn't care. Though there are a host of situations whereby an employee's blog, podcast, photo, or video clip could conceivably subject an employer to third party liability — inadvertent disclosure of confidential or regulated information; harassment, discrimination, or other civil rights violations; false advertising or other unfair competition concerns; and much more — not only are none of them unique to online communications, but it seems to me those using such methods would be almost certain to appreciate that what they're doing is not "private."

Picture a world in which it was a newsworthy event every time someone was fired due to something said in an email or a hallway. Or every time company secrets were clandestinely or inadvertently shared over the phone or over drinks. You'd never hear about the dangers and pitfalls of blogging, because it would constitute such a small part of the overall "problem." (And we could all get back to concentrating on what's really important.)

Comments (3) + TrackBacks (2) | Category: Blawgs | Blogging Legal Developments | Blogging Policies | Ethics, Decorum and Manners | Leaks | Podcasting | Technology

January 9, 2006

November 28, 2005

November 6, 2005

A natural extension for podcasting

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Posted by Tom Mighell

It was only a matter of time before universities jumped on the podcasting bandwagon. Stanford recently released its Stanford on iTunes project, which provides faculty lectures, interviews, music and sports for Stanford alumni and students. And now it's coming to law schools. The terrific Center for Computer-Assisted Legal Education has been featuring lectures and other educational materials at CALI Radio, otherwise known as the ClassCaster, for several months now. And the brand-new University of Chicago Law School Faculty Blog, which has only been posting since late September, is already featuring talks and events via a podcast feed.

How long before our law school classrooms are empty, with everyone attending via podcast? It would sure deal a blow to the Socratic method, eh?

Comments (3) + TrackBacks (1) | Category: Podcasting

October 18, 2005

September 3, 2005

Almost Live, From The Plawdosphere

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Posted by Denise Howell

Some topical and timely law related podcasts you might want to check out:

Don't forget to visit the law node at Indiepodder.org, and Blawgcast.com, for more on podcasts of the legal persuasion.

Comments (0) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting

September 1, 2005

Hurricane Relief Podcast PSA

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Posted by Denise Howell

Comments (0) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting

August 26, 2005

Reading Licenses: Commercial Music in Podcasts

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Posted by Dennis M. Kennedy

Cory Doctorow read the PodShow license for use of commercial music in podcasts and recovered enough from the shock to post about it. He illustrates why it's important to read the fine print. After all, you might want to simply to use the music, not limit what you can and cannot talk about.

As Marty recently said, "Maximizing every short term advantage may not be the best long-term strategy."

Comments (0) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting

August 8, 2005

Big Blue Podcasts

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Posted by Denise Howell

Here's the IBM and the Future Of... podcast, and another one from their Systems and Technology group. I haven't listened to either yet, but really think podcasts from businesses will be a big deal.

Comments (0) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting

July 1, 2005

Apple's Uncanny Timing

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Posted by Denise Howell

  • Monday, June 27. Grokster decision issues from U.S. Supreme Court. Court concludes that "statements or actions directed to promoting infringement" should trump the safe harbor represented by the Sony-Betamax decision. Applies to secondary liability for user infringement in connection with all products "capable of both lawful and unlawful use." Fact of probable "staggering" scope of direct infringement by users, while not controlling, undeniably shades the analysis.
  • Tuesday, June 28. iTunes 4.9 debuts, now with podcasts. The good news: many podcasts are copyright friendly. The bad news: many, not so much.
  • Wednesday, June 29. The Wall Street Journal reports that "Apple will weed out podcasts that include full-length songs for which [sic] podcasters don't have permission to use," and that "Mr. Jobs says Apple has an agreement from music companies that allows podcasters to play 30-second song clips in their shows."
  • Thursday, June 30. Apple Podcast Subscriptions Top A Million.

Hmm. I begin to understand what Ernie Miller meant by "ironically." Like the business models of Grokster and StreamCast, the iPod business model hinges on users having worthwhile, perhaps frequently infringing, listening material. In podcasting then, Apple has the proverbial Tiger (no pun intended) by the tail. Will it behave, or not? (Playing with fire and bargaining with the devil are two other hackneyed but apropos expressions that come to mind.) Will podcasts strengthen Apple's ability to fend off secondary liability claims, or just multiply the number of direct user infringements being facilitated? It's tough to say, but I bet it's got legal in a tizzy.

Comments (5) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Copyright | Podcasting | Provocations

June 30, 2005

On the Subject of Podcasting . . .

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Posted by Dennis M. Kennedy

The new issue of the ABA's Law Practice Today webzine has lot of great articles on practice of law topics and I recommend it highly.

However, I wanted to emphasize Tom and I's article in this issue called "MP3s, Podcasts and Internet Audio Resources for Lawyers," which points to a variety of great resources for lawyers interested in podcasting, either as consumers or producers. We tried to make it a handy starting point for lawyers and others wanting to find good entry points into the world of podcasting.

There is an allusion in the article to future Between Lawyers podcasts and I can confirm that we are talking about that internally and externally. I'd welcome hearing in the comments your thoughts and ideas about a Between Lawyers podcast series, or even the possibility of multiple types of Between Lawyers podcasts.

In the meantime, check out some of the podcast links in Tom and I's article and visit Bag and Baggage for links to some new podcasts from Denise.

Comments (1) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting

June 17, 2005

June 3, 2005

Driving Hazards Aside

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Posted by Denise Howell

Our neighbor Ernie Miller has called for Congress to podcast. Here's his roundup of responses, pro and con. I'm stunned no one yet has raised the critical public safety issue of all those drivers nodding off on the road. (Kidding, I think it's a great idea and high time.)

Comments (0) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting

April 28, 2005

Fast Uptake For Podcasting

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Posted by Marty Schwimmer

Infinity Broadcasting, which I believe is the second largest radio company behind Clear Channel, has announced an all-podcasting radio station. There are competing creation myths about how long podcasting has been around, but it seems inarguable that this is some sort of record for uptake of a communications technology by the mainstream.

UPDATE: Discussion of whether the blogosphere and the podpeople represent a tipping point for MSM here and here.

UPDATE: More discussion of KYOU from Blawgcast.

Comments (0) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting

April 8, 2005

March 29, 2005

Re: Podcasting: What Makes For A Good Law Podcast?

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Posted by Denise Howell

I spend lots of time in cars and airplanes and behind strollers (running and walking). Thank goodness for podcasts. And for iPodder and similar applications. When things that interest you are being automatically delivered to a device you have with you all the time, you don't need to "make time" to listen. Time makes itself. Driving around, getting an oil change, etc. Whenever I'm going to be stuck somewhere is when I listen. So, some days I catch a few shows, some days I catch a whole bunch, some days none. This translates into lots of intellectual candy for me, and no more "what am I going to listen to?" thoughts or housekeeping before running out the door. I love the degree of control it gives you over the signal:noise ratio in your life.

As far as the intersection of podcasting and the legal field, as with blogs this is a great vehicle for lawyers and firms to demonstrate expertise and distribute information on important, complicated, and/or controversial topics. Or maybe just to lighten up a little. It also strikes me as a great tool to use internally: in-house MCLE, training, informational meetings, etc. could be captured as podcasts for those unable to be there in person or even virtually at the particular scheduled time. There are a whole host of internal administrative uses I would think.

But enough about that — I couldn't agree with Marty more about timeshifted and portable appellate oral argument. Though forward-looking courts are Webcasting, I really hope we'll start to see some syndicating their audio before long as well, or adopting an encouraging attitude toward those who want to do so.

As far as excellent production values and relentlessly engaging material go, it's tough to beat Evan Schaeffer and his various podcasts including "Law Related Things That Suck." The current installment is some biting political commentary regarding the Schiavo case: "In these sorts of complex cases, when it comes to judges President Bush and Congress want a judge who's less like Flounder and more like Dean Wormer — in other words, a good old-fashioned federal judge."

Also, podcasting will only get more and more accessible on both the production and listener fronts. Witness the Podcast Hotel Corante is planning, and BlawgCast, as examples.

Comments (1) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting

March 28, 2005

Re: Podcasting - My Two Cents

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Posted by Ernest Svenson

I'm definitely getting older, and I'm clearly losing my edge. That's the best explanation I can offer for my inability to achieve 'tech-epiphany' over the whole podcast revolution.

I like the idea of RSS as a way of scooping up information on websites quickly. My newsreader is filled with thousands of posts from about 203 different sites. I'm not going to pretend for even one second that I read all of these posts everyday. But I do scan the headlines. If I see something interesting I can zero in on it quickly, which is nice. I only subscribe to sites that have 'full feeds' because I don't want to have to wait for web pages to load. That's the point of RSS right?

Well, not completely. Now, a new feature of RSS is the ability to download audio files (a/k/a 'podcasts'). These files are generally not small (average is a couple of MBs). Can I quickly scan these files to see if they contain information I want to assimilate? Sort of, but not anywhere near like what happens with RSS feeds of HTML content.

So are podcasts useless? No, not at all. Audio files are great if you are driving in your car. By contrast, trying to read a news reader while driving is sub-optimal at best. Podcast afficianados seem to like the fact that they can listen and learn at certain moments (i.e. driving, jogging, sky-diving) that would otherwise be wasted by only paying attention to one thing at a time.

I agree this sort of multi-tasking is a wonderful. I just don't happen to be one of those people who gravitates towards listening to audio files, unless it's music. But, for those that like on-demand learning, podcasting is a great thing. Maybe one day bar associations will figure out that podcasts are a good way to provide CLE content in a form that might actually make it easy and convenient to learn. Then, I'll really be excited. Of course, I'll probably be in a nursing home too.

Hopefully, Amanda Congdon's vlog/podcast will still be available then.E:

Comments (2) + TrackBacks (0) | Category: Podcasting

Podcasting: What Makes For A Good Law Podcast?

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Posted by Marty Schwimmer

I've begun listening to podcasts and even participated in one.

The good news is that there's a technology that will automatically filter out all the umms and uhhs and coughing and sniffing and slurping noises from your podcast. It's called writing. [rimshot]

But seriously, what makes for a good podcast for lawyers? My initial personal reaction:

Two things to avoid are:

(1) horrible production values. As the CEO of ODEO pointed out, we're trained to write, not to record audio. Amateur production values can have home-made charm, but thoroughly unprofessional production values are unlistenable.

(2) inappropriate content, by which I do not mean some of Ernie's jokes, but information that is not readily comprehensible in the spoken format. A law review article that's hard to assimilate as it is, is not made easier to understand by being read aloud to you by a lawyer.

Things seem to work so far include: the give and take of interviews and panel discussions (as long as they don't devolve into Crossfire-like shouting matches).

Things we should lobby for: appellate oral argument. (here's a good example from IPTA BLog on Grokster).

Comments (1) | Category: Podcasting